Making a map.

[Lauren]

Yea what title says i guess i just wanna know what you all look for in a siege map, would help me out a fair bit to get something everyone would like, only ever made 1 map that was a jk2 ffa one >; some people liked it guess others didn't but meh anyway post here plox!

[A nub is In Ur Forum]

Oho, is this an oprotunity to post my opinions on good map design? Well, OK. Don't regret asking, now.

1. No single-route chokepoints small enough to midget-door-hold; everything should be open enough, or multirouted enough, that D can't just fire blindly into one small area and hold the map automatically, even against srsly bad players (especially if D is also mostly bad.)
2. No tripmines/D golan unless the map is open enough that spam is far less effective than on Hoth; if they're present at all, don't give double ammo to the classes that have them.
3. No shields unless the map is open enough that abusing them isn't nearly as practical as it is on Hoth (See:Des.)
4. See 1.
5. Kor, Cargo or USM classes (unmodified) if not custom (and if non-shared custom, very carefully designed from scratch and not just a few minor tweaks on Hoth or any other builtin set.) Mix-and-match of O and D teams from different maps would be especially interesting as long as the map is correctly balanced accordingly.
6. Strong resistance to any attempt at laming to the greatest degree possible; no objective should be skippable at all unless it's MEANT to be skippable (i.e. H3H main computer hack.) And no lifts that can be meaningfully lamed, for instance. Beware any potential for wook-trick-like controversy; if there can be any doubt about something, the map's readme should state how the map is meant to be played, and anything that isn't intended to be possible should be blocked to the fullest reasonable extent.
7. See 1.
8. Maintain as much compatability with all other custom Siege maps as possible; a custom map should not make it impossible to have any other map also function normally without moving pk3s/etc, if at all possible.
9. Multiple objectives available at once, designed so that D can still reasonably try to hold several of them at once (kinda like Des stations, though that could probably be improved?)
10. Widespread yews of jan-hackable triggers, ideally with the ability for both teams to hack them back and forth, i.e. locking, unlocking, and relocking doors, turning turrets to either side, etc.
11. Don't go overboard on custom content like textures/music/models/etc; if the map can be kept to a size where even a Euro or Aussie can download them from a US site in 5 seconds or less, that's preferable, so getting the map for a game is near-instant.
12. See 1.
13. No Grip 3 unless all classes on the other team have Absorb or at least Push 2.
14. No Pull 2+ or FFR on any class with Saber Throw, unless the class gets practically nothing else.
15. If fully custom classes, design for and recommend at least g_forceRegenTime 250 or higher, so that raising sv_fps doesn't make FFR as much more powerful as it does normally (it's supposed to be 5x and becomes such as a side-effect if settings are changed certain ways, under default settings it's effectively 4x due to poor coding.) Changing regentime per map can be done automatically by the server if properly configured, so this will not cause problems with other maps on the same server.
16. Concussion Rifle on at least 1 class, given by a class-specific trigger_multiple if necessary so that classes that would be overpowered with it can't get it. Walkover trigger_multiples at every possible spawn for that class running an ICARUS script or target_give to give the weapon should be able to make this (or adding most other pickup-able items to any given class) transparent.
17. Stun Batons readilly available to all classes, either inherently or as a pickup.
18. Melee inherently on all classes, no exceptions.
19. Give most classes at least Force Jump 1.
20. Design so that, as much as possible, /kill'ing every few spawns is not particularly needed/beneficial even if you're on D and surviving indefinitely; there are many factors that influence this.
21. Judicious yews of non-overpowering pickups to add spice while keeping things balanced; bowcasters and blaster rifles, for instance, or pistols if not all classes have them.
22. If shield/ammo chargers are present, don't give them unlimited supply; balance the capacity and recharge rate to the location.
23. If you're bold enough, refine my unique-pickup concept as demonstrated in my experimental patch on Sominous and make good yews of it...

I suppose I may as well mention an idea I've been stewing a while now, as well... the same method I'm using to create the Hoth Patch which will stop a lot of the usual lames on it, also could likely be used to add siege starts and objectives (and whatever else is needed, within certain limits) to existing non-siege maps, potentially creating new effectively-'builtin' Siege maps which a player with vanilla basejka and no custom maps downloaded could join and play on with no downloads. t1_fatal (the one with all the bombs) and t1_rail (the tram) both look like good candidates for this, as are many others to lesser extents. The method is rather arcane and doesn't much resemble conventional map-making, so I'm not sure there are many people capable of doing it besides me... and my main concern about doing it myself is whether it's worth my time... I'd need the support of someone with a 24/7 server they'd want to put it on (Guard? Anyone else?), as well as the community in general to playtest it and get it balanced.

There are some particular caveats to it, of course... while someone with no download for it will be able to join the server, spectate, autojoin a team, and generally play with no problems, most of the join menu will be blank; no objectives shown there (though the player will still be able to complete objectives normally like anyone else), and no GUI class selection there. The Auto-Join and Spectator buttons will still work, so they'll be able to join and automatically recieve the snowtrooper class or whatever's default; also, if they come into the map from another and had a different class, JKA will automatically select the corresponding class for them when the new map loads (reborn bosses stay reborn boss until they change it, rax jorises stay Demo, etc.) /siegeclass will still work, so if, for instance, I yews Hoth classes, someone with classbinds can just yews them as they would on Hoth, uninhibited. Also, it would be possible to create a small optional clientside file which would fill in the normal Join menu functionality (objectives list and GUI class selection) for those who wanted it, without affecting people who joined without it. It would also be possible to simply create suitable classbinds and distribute them as another option, even in combination with a GUI clientside option and the no-download option; this last option in particular could be of value to mappers (J3rk?) wanting to yews custom classes while keeping the map able to be installed at the same time as others without hitting the custom classes limitations; Caveat: Custom classes a client doesn't have data for all look like Kyle. By putting custom classes in a second pk3 which can be left out on the clientside, players can be able to join and play a custom map (especially if they yews classbinds for class selection) without having it count towards the custom classes installed limit in basejka, and even place the second pk3 in specific mod directories that don't have the limit while still keeping the bulk of the map in base; they get full normal functionality on those mods, while still being able to join servers running the map and have the limited functionality on base and thier other mods, simultaneously.

[tens0r]

Make an open field and make it be whoever can aim better.

AKA Tensor wins

[Lauren]

i ask for quick ideas not a fucking essay =(

Nice ideas though thank i like em
@11 im euro anyway 0_o
@23 where to get?

[A nub is In Ur Forum]

Nice ideas though thank i like em

You're welcome.

@11 im euro anyway 0_o

But you probably won't be having to download your own map from a site, so it doesn't affect you or any other mapper directly, and most mappers don't have thier own local site to publish on - so other euros/etc are likely to need to get maps from a site like this one, which may well be across an ocean.

@23 where to get?

You'd need to join the test server (SoMinous Enrichment Center) when it's up sometime... it's up randomly, and is generally right under Impulse on the in-game list when it's up. If you keep an eye out you'll catch it sooner or later. <shrug>

[Darth_Wayne]

I'm able to download at over 500 kb/s from European servers... don't see how that's a problem.

[tens0r]

I'm able to download at over 500 kb/s from European servers... don't see how that's a problem.

This!

[Duo]

dude writing a novel in every reply

[Turky]

dude writing a novel in every reply

more like a novella tbh

[A nub is In Ur Forum]

dude writing a novel in every reply

dude writing a sentence or less in every reply to get his post count up, but still not catching up to guard anytime soon

dudes nitpicking unimportant things while no one takes interest in having more psuedo-base siege maps

And last I heard, some Euros and Aussies/New Zealanders especially, still have quite poor personal connections, which wouldn't be reflected in an American downloading from a major European server that's probably on a much higher-grade connection by local standards.