An interesting analysis of just how bad the empire was at warfare, which further raises the question of how on earth they became the empire to begin with...
http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2013/02/battle-of-hoth/
The empire's war strategy...or lack therof
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FearMikeHawk
- Posts: 48
- Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2013 5:57 pm
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MajorMajor
- Posts: 75
- Joined: Mon Jun 15, 2009 9:21 pm
Re: The empire's war strategy...or lack therof
Sorry but I disagree with a lot of what this guy says in his analysis because his premise is completely flawed.
He makes the incorrect assumption that the Rebels goal in defending their base is to repel the Imperial forces. They lack the manpower and firepower for such a thing. Therefore, the Rebel strategy is to detect and evade any incoming Imperial force.
The idiot criticizes the rebels only having a single base on the entire planet. Having only a single base on the entire planet makes it pretty damn hard to find which is in alignment with their strategy of evading the empire. Also, the Rebellion is so poorly funded they probably can't afford to have more than one. He criticizes the Rebellion for not having loads of artillery and more defensive weaponry to defend the shield generator. He completely ignores the fact that you fight wars with the things you have at your disposal not the things you wish you could have.
The shield itself does its job of keeping the Imperials from being right inside their base before they can launch their escape craft.
The Imperials exiting hyperspace too close to the planet was either a severe tactical blunder by a seasoned space naval officer or just the fortunes of war. Calculating hyperspace accurately has to be pretty complicated so this could have just been an honest mistake. Vader, of course, tolerates no failure.
The guy further critcizes Vader's strategy of bringing only a handful of Star Destroyers to blockade an entire planet. He is a complete idiot. No one would bring the entire Imperial fleet with them hunting around the galaxy for one small Rebel base in the ass end of nowhere. Vader knew the relative size of the base he was looking for because he was at Yavin. He took a sizable contengent with him and sent the rest out to patrol the rest of the galaxy and maintain order in the Empire.
The author also insists that the Imperials could yews the Rebel shield as a choke point to bottle up and slaughter the Rebel forces as they are driven out by a Tie Fighter bombardment. The main problem here is that the choke point is the Ion Cannon's line of sight. I don't know the yeild of an Ion Cannon but it must be pretty good. I don't think you'd want to send your Star Destroyers into its firing line unless you were planning on losing them. Sure you might take some rebel transports out but sacraficing six Star Destroyers for about the same number of shitty Rebel transports doesn't seem like a good trade off. It would be like sacraficing your queen, your knights, and your rooks for an equivalent number of pawns.
Using a ground force to overrun the Rebels was the most sensible course of action. The base needed to be taken before it could launch all of its transports. The failure to overrun the rebel base in time was that of the ground forces not Vader's strategy.
Also, the Tie Fighters were most definitely needed in space to intercept the trapsorts not bombarding the enemy base. They are the only space craft the Imperials had that could probably evade the fire of that behemoth of an Ion Cannon while harrassing the Rebel ships.
The idiot writing this also insisted that Vader's joining the ground snowtrooper is unexplained and is also a huge military blunder because he can't bombard the rebel base while being inside it himself. Its true that the bombardment is clearly cancelled and while a bombardment may have killed a few more rebels it wouldn't have accomplished Vader's objectives. The writer forgets that Vader isn't there simply to destroy the base but to capture and turn Skywalker to his side and thereby win the war. He no doubt senses Luke's presence in the base. Such is the power of the force and it should not be ignored in judging Vader's tactical decisions.
Han's flying into the three star destroyers while escaping Hoth can be chalked up to the movie making or Han's shitty navigation skills. He might be a great pilot but he obviously plotted an escape course in a straight line. What it does do is provide us with some more Han and Leia moments and keeps them separated from Luke.
Its not even all that surprising Luke escapes in his X-wing. The Imperial ships and fighters would be focused on the transports and especially on the very identifiable Millenium Falcon. A single rebel fighter just isn't a priority target and they don't have the force like Vader to tell them that its Luke piloting it. Besides, the force is with him.
The one glaring tactical error I do agree with is having Luke, Han, and Leia all in the same location. This made hoth a very juicy target and jeopardized the entire rebel operation. However, it is necessary to the movie so it must be forgiven.
He makes the incorrect assumption that the Rebels goal in defending their base is to repel the Imperial forces. They lack the manpower and firepower for such a thing. Therefore, the Rebel strategy is to detect and evade any incoming Imperial force.
The idiot criticizes the rebels only having a single base on the entire planet. Having only a single base on the entire planet makes it pretty damn hard to find which is in alignment with their strategy of evading the empire. Also, the Rebellion is so poorly funded they probably can't afford to have more than one. He criticizes the Rebellion for not having loads of artillery and more defensive weaponry to defend the shield generator. He completely ignores the fact that you fight wars with the things you have at your disposal not the things you wish you could have.
The shield itself does its job of keeping the Imperials from being right inside their base before they can launch their escape craft.
The Imperials exiting hyperspace too close to the planet was either a severe tactical blunder by a seasoned space naval officer or just the fortunes of war. Calculating hyperspace accurately has to be pretty complicated so this could have just been an honest mistake. Vader, of course, tolerates no failure.
The guy further critcizes Vader's strategy of bringing only a handful of Star Destroyers to blockade an entire planet. He is a complete idiot. No one would bring the entire Imperial fleet with them hunting around the galaxy for one small Rebel base in the ass end of nowhere. Vader knew the relative size of the base he was looking for because he was at Yavin. He took a sizable contengent with him and sent the rest out to patrol the rest of the galaxy and maintain order in the Empire.
The author also insists that the Imperials could yews the Rebel shield as a choke point to bottle up and slaughter the Rebel forces as they are driven out by a Tie Fighter bombardment. The main problem here is that the choke point is the Ion Cannon's line of sight. I don't know the yeild of an Ion Cannon but it must be pretty good. I don't think you'd want to send your Star Destroyers into its firing line unless you were planning on losing them. Sure you might take some rebel transports out but sacraficing six Star Destroyers for about the same number of shitty Rebel transports doesn't seem like a good trade off. It would be like sacraficing your queen, your knights, and your rooks for an equivalent number of pawns.
Using a ground force to overrun the Rebels was the most sensible course of action. The base needed to be taken before it could launch all of its transports. The failure to overrun the rebel base in time was that of the ground forces not Vader's strategy.
Also, the Tie Fighters were most definitely needed in space to intercept the trapsorts not bombarding the enemy base. They are the only space craft the Imperials had that could probably evade the fire of that behemoth of an Ion Cannon while harrassing the Rebel ships.
The idiot writing this also insisted that Vader's joining the ground snowtrooper is unexplained and is also a huge military blunder because he can't bombard the rebel base while being inside it himself. Its true that the bombardment is clearly cancelled and while a bombardment may have killed a few more rebels it wouldn't have accomplished Vader's objectives. The writer forgets that Vader isn't there simply to destroy the base but to capture and turn Skywalker to his side and thereby win the war. He no doubt senses Luke's presence in the base. Such is the power of the force and it should not be ignored in judging Vader's tactical decisions.
Han's flying into the three star destroyers while escaping Hoth can be chalked up to the movie making or Han's shitty navigation skills. He might be a great pilot but he obviously plotted an escape course in a straight line. What it does do is provide us with some more Han and Leia moments and keeps them separated from Luke.
Its not even all that surprising Luke escapes in his X-wing. The Imperial ships and fighters would be focused on the transports and especially on the very identifiable Millenium Falcon. A single rebel fighter just isn't a priority target and they don't have the force like Vader to tell them that its Luke piloting it. Besides, the force is with him.
The one glaring tactical error I do agree with is having Luke, Han, and Leia all in the same location. This made hoth a very juicy target and jeopardized the entire rebel operation. However, it is necessary to the movie so it must be forgiven.
Re: The empire's war strategy...or lack therof
Speaking from first hand experience, I think the rebels have plenty of defense for the shield gen on Hoth with Jan Ors on the job! 
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FearMikeHawk
- Posts: 48
- Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2013 5:57 pm
Re: The empire's war strategy...or lack therof
maybe you should have been leading the empire instead, they might have been able to win thenMajorMajor wrote:Sorry but I disagree with a lot of what this guy says in his analysis because his premise is completely flawed.
He makes the incorrect assumption that the Rebels goal in defending their base is to repel the Imperial forces. They lack the manpower and firepower for such a thing. Therefore, the Rebel strategy is to detect and evade any incoming Imperial force.
The idiot criticizes the rebels only having a single base on the entire planet. Having only a single base on the entire planet makes it pretty damn hard to find which is in alignment with their strategy of evading the empire. Also, the Rebellion is so poorly funded they probably can't afford to have more than one. He criticizes the Rebellion for not having loads of artillery and more defensive weaponry to defend the shield generator. He completely ignores the fact that you fight wars with the things you have at your disposal not the things you wish you could have.
The shield itself does its job of keeping the Imperials from being right inside their base before they can launch their escape craft.
The Imperials exiting hyperspace too close to the planet was either a severe tactical blunder by a seasoned space naval officer or just the fortunes of war. Calculating hyperspace accurately has to be pretty complicated so this could have just been an honest mistake. Vader, of course, tolerates no failure.
The guy further critcizes Vader's strategy of bringing only a handful of Star Destroyers to blockade an entire planet. He is a complete idiot. No one would bring the entire Imperial fleet with them hunting around the galaxy for one small Rebel base in the ass end of nowhere. Vader knew the relative size of the base he was looking for because he was at Yavin. He took a sizable contengent with him and sent the rest out to patrol the rest of the galaxy and maintain order in the Empire.
The author also insists that the Imperials could yews the Rebel shield as a choke point to bottle up and slaughter the Rebel forces as they are driven out by a Tie Fighter bombardment. The main problem here is that the choke point is the Ion Cannon's line of sight. I don't know the yeild of an Ion Cannon but it must be pretty good. I don't think you'd want to send your Star Destroyers into its firing line unless you were planning on losing them. Sure you might take some rebel transports out but sacraficing six Star Destroyers for about the same number of shitty Rebel transports doesn't seem like a good trade off. It would be like sacraficing your queen, your knights, and your rooks for an equivalent number of pawns.
Using a ground force to overrun the Rebels was the most sensible course of action. The base needed to be taken before it could launch all of its transports. The failure to overrun the rebel base in time was that of the ground forces not Vader's strategy.
Also, the Tie Fighters were most definitely needed in space to intercept the trapsorts not bombarding the enemy base. They are the only space craft the Imperials had that could probably evade the fire of that behemoth of an Ion Cannon while harrassing the Rebel ships.
The idiot writing this also insisted that Vader's joining the ground snowtrooper is unexplained and is also a huge military blunder because he can't bombard the rebel base while being inside it himself. Its true that the bombardment is clearly cancelled and while a bombardment may have killed a few more rebels it wouldn't have accomplished Vader's objectives. The writer forgets that Vader isn't there simply to destroy the base but to capture and turn Skywalker to his side and thereby win the war. He no doubt senses Luke's presence in the base. Such is the power of the force and it should not be ignored in judging Vader's tactical decisions.
Han's flying into the three star destroyers while escaping Hoth can be chalked up to the movie making or Han's shitty navigation skills. He might be a great pilot but he obviously plotted an escape course in a straight line. What it does do is provide us with some more Han and Leia moments and keeps them separated from Luke.
Its not even all that surprising Luke escapes in his X-wing. The Imperial ships and fighters would be focused on the transports and especially on the very identifiable Millenium Falcon. A single rebel fighter just isn't a priority target and they don't have the force like Vader to tell them that its Luke piloting it. Besides, the force is with him.
The one glaring tactical error I do agree with is having Luke, Han, and Leia all in the same location. This made hoth a very juicy target and jeopardized the entire rebel operation. However, it is necessary to the movie so it must be forgiven.
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Turquoise Dragon
- The Scaled One
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Re: The empire's war strategy...or lack therof
If I had control of the imperial forces, my battle plan would be simple:
1) Land ground troops and destroy sheild generator.
2) All ships in orbit concentrate fire on the rebel base and blow it to hell. Any survivors would slowly be claimed by Hoth's climate.
1) Land ground troops and destroy sheild generator.
2) All ships in orbit concentrate fire on the rebel base and blow it to hell. Any survivors would slowly be claimed by Hoth's climate.
Re: The empire's war strategy...or lack therof
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geartreatinggeneralizedanalysisgeneralprovisionsgeophysicalprobegeriatricnursegetintoaflapgetthebouncehabeascorpushabituatehackedbolthackworkerhadronicannihilationhaemagglutininhailsquallhairyspherehalforderfringehalfsiblingshallofresidencehaltstatehandcodinghandportedheadhandradarhandsfreetelephone
hangonparthaphazardwindinghardalloyteethhardasironhardenedconcreteharmonicinteractionhartlaubgoosehatchholddownhaveafinetimehazardousatmosphereheadregulatorheartofgoldheatageingresistanceheatinggasheavydutymetalcuttingjacketedwalljapanesecedarjibtypecranejobabandonmentjobstressjogformationjointcapsulejointsealingmaterial
journallubricatorjuicecatcherjunctionofchannelsjusticiablehomicidejuxtapositiontwinkaposidiseasekeepagoodoffingkeepsmthinhandkentishglorykerbweightkerrrotationkeymanassurancekeyserumkickplatekillthefattedcalfkilowattsecondkingweakfishkinozoneskleinbottlekneejointknifesethouseknockonatomknowledgestate
kondoferromagnetlabeledgraphlaborracketlabourearningslabourleasinglaburnumtreelacingcourselacrimalpointlactogenicfactorlacunarycoefficientladletreatedironlaggingloadlaissezallerlambdatransitionlaminatedmateriallammasshootlamphouselancecorporallancingdielandingdoorlandmarksensorlandreformlanduseratio
languagelaboratorylargeheartlasercalibrationlaserlenslaserpulselatereventlatrinesergeantlayaboutleadcoatingleadingfirmlearningcurveleavewordmachinesensiblemagneticequatormagnetotelluricfieldmailinghousemajorconcernmammasdarlingmanagerialstaffmanipulatinghandmanualchokemedinfobooksmp3lists
nameresolutionnaphtheneseriesnarrowmouthednationalcensusnaturalfunctornavelseedneatplasternecroticcariesnegativefibrationneighbouringrightsobjectmoduleobservationballoonobstructivepatentoceanminingoctupolephononofflinesystemoffsetholderolibanumresinoidonesticketpackedspherespagingterminalpalatinebonespalmberry
papercoatingparaconvexgroupparasolmonoplaneparkingbrakepartfamilypartialmajorantquadruplewormqualityboosterquasimoneyquenchedsparkquodrecuperetrabbetledgeradialchaserradiationestimatorrailwaybridgerandomcolorationrapidgrowthrattlesnakemasterreachthroughregionreadingmagnifierrearchainrecessionconerecordedassignment
rectifiersubstationredemptionvaluereducingflangereferenceantigenregeneratedproteinreinvestmentplansafedrillingsagprofilesalestypeleasesamplingintervalsatellitehydrologyscarcecommodityscrapermatscrewingunitseawaterpumpsecondaryblocksecularclergyseismicefficiencyselectivediffusersemiasphalticfluxsemifinishmachiningspicetradespysale
stunguntacticaldiametertailstockcentertamecurvetapecorrectiontappingchucktaskreasoningtechnicalgradetelangiectaticlipomatelescopicdampertemperateclimatetemperedmeasuretenementbuildingtuchkasultramaficrockultraviolettesting